markethon

 

We’re. Um, so yeah I’ve got, I’ve got two clients that are professional streamers and then we’re doing our own conference called stream con in two months. Well, for streamers so I love talking about it,

Mark Fidelman  00:14

love it. Wonderful. Wonderful. Okay, so today we’re going to talk about, you know, kind of the development of a signature product or service. And, you know, for me, I like to dig in pretty deep on these things because my promise to my audience is that they’re going to learn something, and the walk away with at least one actionable thing. And I know you’ve got it, because you know you and I’ve already had a discussion, but that’s kind of like what I, what I’d like to do is just kind of come in with a beginner’s mind and kind of drill down just like they would if they were running things. And, you know, kind of, if you could break it down. Doesn’t have to be to the nth level and there’s so many variables. Everyone knows that but if you could break it down into Okay, this is how you. This is how you do it, and I would love to hear some examples and I’m sure you’ve got some, some of your own examples personal examples but other examples would be great as well.

01:11

Yeah, yeah. I’m writing down. I got quite a few clients and what we’re doing. This is good.

Mark Fidelman  01:19

Okay. All right, so how this works. I’m going to do a brief intro. And then I’m going to welcome you to the show, ask you in 100 words or less, you know, for your experience in your bio, and you can mention your podcast or we could do that do that at the end, however you want to do that, that’s fine. Yeah. Okay. And then we’re gonna jump right into it with some questions around building a signature product or service I love the topic. Love it. Because I I have a course coming out and I’d like to hear and learn from you so I’ll be coming at you with a beginner’s mind. Okay, I’m gonna pause for two seconds, and then we’re gonna jump right into things you’re gonna hear a beep here in just second. So, just so you know it’s recording. Okay. Hello everyone, welcome to the digital brand builder podcast. Joining me today is doc Williams he’s a solution architect who specializes in helping entrepreneurs build actionable goals develop strategies and level up their business and today. And I’m very interested in this because I have a course coming out, we’re going to discuss how to develop a signature product or service, and very excited to welcome doc to the show he’s got his own podcast we’ll talk about that in a second. Doc, welcome to the show and can you give us maybe 100 word bio about yourself.

02:53

Yeah. Well, Mark. Again, thank you so much for allowing me to be on the show, and I’m excited to be here, that the bio about me I, I’ve been in the digital space for about a decade, and I pretty much have done it all, spanning from having a brick and mortar business to working with VaynerMedia, and appsumo. So, ranges from writing copywriting all the way to app building and and having a drone license and doing content or drone racing, stuff like that.

Mark Fidelman  03:30

Wow, I need to know those things about you. So tell me about your, your experience with VaynerMedia, and then drone racing what no clue.

03:40

Yeah so Vayner, so I started working with a bank VaynerMedia about two and a half years ago. It started with Vayner sports and. Originally, I was working by me not originally but at the time I was working for ESPN as a journalist there. I was doing a lot of writing for sports magazines and VaynerMedia came out, I heard about it and I was like you know what we need to start talking about this. So I got to work with AJ and Vayner sports did a story, and then afterwards they saw that when we came in to work with them we have a full team. I work with and work with a very talented videographer, and we build stories around. What we we document stories so they love that. And then we. From there we just hit it off and did a couple more projects with them. We released something called the Gary Vee content model 2.0 at the end of 2019 and worked with another entity under VaynerMedia called Sasha group and, and those guys over there.

Mark Fidelman  04:38

Wow, okay and then drone racing what I mean, I, I’ve seen this, I have no clue how they wearing VR masks essentially and they’re going through these abandoned warehouses, and they’re making tight corner turns and it’s phenomenal to kind of watch, I just don’t know how they do it

04:58

in a, in a very concise way basically they can train so there’s also simulators so even before you start using the drones you there are so many different applications now that help the pilots to do that. And, you know, it’s really the industry, it’s, it’s a spectacle for sure but then people start diving into what you can do, it’s awesome that not only the pilots learning how to do all those things and they go through simulations and they get actual drones. But then there are so many architects that build the VR environments for these pilots and everything. It’s really expanding industry and yeah so a couple years ago, my same videographer that I was working with, He’s like people are asking for drones and I do that and we did it for, for real estate and other things he’s like you need to get your license well, got my license. And then when they do drone racing. You also need different ones on the ground that have their license there to participate or be there for the pilots so it’s a very roundabout way but I had that experience, and then very very odd one of the guys that used to work in CrossFit, and in other entities where I used to be in those in that field. He then became basically the. I don’t want to say, it might have been the CML, because all of the branding for the leads there for drone racing so we had another connection and then. There you go.

Mark Fidelman  06:27

Wow. So, what happened that you took all this experience. And then you created a brand factory How did that all, how did that work.

06:35

DOC: Yeah. So, in between working for ESPN, I started ghostwriting and started writing with writing for athletes and building out marketing funnels. And the main thing was, a lot of times we had these great athletes great trainers, they had great stories but they didn’t know how to brand themselves at all. And when I started working with them. I was only going to stay in fitness but every time I was around them, there would be other people from other industries like, I know you just work with athletes, but can you do this for me. You know I’m doing something in real estate Can you do this for us. And, yeah, we could because we always focus on the personality and what made them interesting and their storyline, and then we could, you know, basically build a signature product in a box for them. And that’s where it came from brand factory, and because you know entrepreneurs come in brands come out and we started packaging, different, different services and that’s how we got brand factoring.

Mark Fidelman  07:35

Okay, so let’s kind of walk through and this is the topic here’s what I want everyone to learn I want to learn, frankly, how do you develop a signature product or service how to tell it walk us through the steps.

07:49

DOC: Yeah, so the first step, we do is, we have this assessment called the three path to success, and it’s just an assessment, but in a nutshell all it is is we’re looking at an inventory of what you’re great at, and what you like doing, and also how you move in time and space so what does that look like, well, first we got to find out okay are you a showman, do you like being in front of people a lot, do you can you sell things you enjoy that you get energy being around people. The other category would be you know you’re a teacher Do you like going deep and talking about something and then allowing a result to happen like that are you fulfilled by that. And then the third one is are you an explorer you know you you can be around people but what you love being doing is going deep being by yourself being very analytical going deep into a subject, and then when you’re done, you have this wonderful jam you come out on the other end and you want to share that with the world, and 99.999% of some people, they fit into these three categories. And from there, we have a way to build content, and test it to your target audience to see, not what you want to create but what the audience is saying, after you present them with something this information this content, they’re going to perk up and say, I want that or. This is my struggle, I need something like that and then it’s digging into that process and refining it and that’s how we find that signature product.

Mark Fidelman  09:19

Okay, so that’s how you find it right and you and you listen to it which is great you listen to what your audience wants, maybe test some things as well, you know come back to them a little bit. Alright so, then how do you go about implementing that

09:35

DOC: part so this is where we we had the Gary Vee content model 2.0 so we create a, a pillar piece of content so either podcasting, a live stream something where it’s long form and you can connect with your audience, and we put in front, say for instance if someone’s like, Oh, I love talking or I love doing this kind of thing. And Mark if you want me to go into examples how we do with other brands, let me know and I can,

Mark Fidelman  09:59

yeah I do is, as part of this yes

10:02

DOC: yeah so okay so we’ll give an example. So, one of the things was, we had this one athlete, her name’s Christmas habit she was on Big Brother she was big star in CrossFit for over a decade. And so she was trying to figure out what her signature product was. And at the time she was just doing, you know, resource guides or meal meal supplements prep kind of things. And so, to go through this. We asked her, Hey, Why don’t you do a live workout, why don’t you start recording yourself, on, on Instagram and see what the comments are. And from there, when she was doing the workouts. She then saw a huge shift of what people were saying when she was doing these live workouts and asking her certain types of questions and what they’re looking for. Well it turns out she’s very. She’s very bubbly she’s just great, has a great personality tons of people wanted a retreat or just to get to know her so it was less about necessarily necessarily the information was just getting to be around her. But from there. Then we did a series of seminars and had her do a full tour in the US. And from there, she, she was able to replicate what people wanted it wasn’t just the help with the fitness and a meal plan, they wanted to have her reassurance from what was going on. And then from that signature program. She sold out all across the US, and then she went international with the same program. And then after that, iteration we came back and did a virtual version, what we learned from, from all those interactions.

Mark Fidelman  11:38

Okay. and I mean as you’re like building this or, you know, I come to you we figure out what to do. How do we then turn that into a product, not just turn it into a product, and I think you’ll get into this but then how do you market it.

11:58

DOC: Yeah, so there’s basically there’s something we call the pirate ship. And basically what we’re looking for is the, the early adopters, people that love you and want to give you feedback so how do we do this. It’s as simple as. First, I’m talking to a client I’m saying okay what, what, how are you going to be changing the world how are you changing this industry or these kind of people, what happens, the person says, you know when the clients Hey, I think I want to show up here I want to do this, but I’m not sure, or that’s what I’m leaning towards okay so for example, I you know what Mark Did you want, can you go through an example and I can plug it in, for you.

Mark Fidelman  12:39

Yeah, why don’t I can I shamelessly plug my own thing. Alright, so I have a course I’ve done a lot of experience in helping companies create their own like this a branded TV show or let’s say YouTube shows. And I’ve got a lot of experience with helping companies create short video, vignettes for like Tick Tock and Instagram and Facebook. And my thing is not just how you do it, and how you do it well and how you set yourself up for success, but it’s how you then turn that into revenue, so it’s it’s a kind of these videos that have a funnel attached to them, a sales funnel, very robust one. And so I’ve created a course because you know I’m only, you know, my team is only one team and we can’t, can’t scale this out so we’re creating a course especially for those that can’t afford it. So for me, that’s a signature course a mine I got a lot of experience love helping people love to see more of this medium. Take off, especially now you know it’s companies are stuck at home and what better time to be doing it. And so that’s that’s kind of my signature thing so how, how should I now take this course which is almost wrapped up package it up, and then, you know, let the right people know about it I don’t want to, you know, the world doesn’t care but there are some people, and I know there’s a lot of companies that would love to know more about this.

14:09

DOC: That’s a really good question. So first of all I would start with taking inventory so you already have the course you have all those things. Do you already have a few businesses in your mind that are like listen, if they had the power of this, they could really do damage with their company. Is it a brick and mortar business that you feel like aren’t showing up online, who do you, who do you personally know like it just top of mind that comes to it maybe not the business name. But what kind of businesses that becomes mine.

Mark Fidelman  14:40

So, any technology business so a lot of b2b businesses should be doing this, there’s no better medium for getting the word out then the video, especially when we’re talking about, you know, targeting millennials, or even older decision makers

14:58

DOC: in these technology platforms, what kind of technology platforms are they are they infrastructure, what, what are they doing.

Mark Fidelman  15:07

They if we’re gonna narrow it down, they would be providing services like SAS services to other businesses like a Salesforce, for example, an Oracle and IBM or Microsoft and by the way I’ve already done this for those companies, but let’s just take a medium sized company because a large company, very bureaucratic hard to, you know, kind of get through but a midsize or even a well funded startup, would be very wise to do this.

15:33

DOC: So, I show up in a couple different ways. Number one, if it’s more startups. I’m going to ones where they’re either at, I’m targeting them at meetups, or I’m seeing a lot of startups are huge on Twitter, and even mid size, if they have the traction they already have, you know, they’ve been making sales they’re just not showing up online. I’m already creating a list of five to 10 mid size and then five to 10 startups. And what I’m doing is I’m just approaching two at a time, maybe two a day. And I’m explaining outreaching to the startup saying hey I love what you’re doing right here. I love the product because it acts, but I’m seeing that you’re not showing up here, x y and z. And I think you need to be doing this with videos I’ve gotten a solution for you. And I just want to know if you’re you’d be interested to hearing about it. Now I know these seems very basic, but I think even making just that little bit of custom or showing that you know about them in providing what they need to do. It’s going to help them automatically want to have that conversation. Now of course, I’m saying this, not at scale you can’t do this with with 1000, but if I can get on board. Five startups in five minutes sighs, I’ve already walked them through this, and I already have them for the testimonial for my launch of the course. I can scale it, because I already have five examples, and there are a pivotal in that industry. And now I’m just scaling it, and I’m rinsing repeating it in different verticals of different technology types of businesses. Okay,

Mark Fidelman  17:13

so I think it’s a great ideas and then you probably learn through that interaction as to exactly what the objections are or things to highlight.

17:23

DOC: Yeah, and that’s a good part Mark like I only approached two at a time because if I just do a full campaign I’m like I got these 15, whatever I could be learning, you know, well what questions are they asking what object what things I didn’t think about, they’re like, well, how would this work, but do I need to attach a preview video or walkthrough of what the course would do and then the solution, but if I approach two at a time. I can, I can reasonably be okay with it. But I can learn a lot, and I don’t, kind of, I don’t go through my entire list, all at once, maybe you know during that 15 at, you know, the 15th, I really wanted to learn that, if I can learn five or six times over and over again, I’m going to get that person by the end.

Mark Fidelman  18:07

Okay, so this is a great way to start, and a great way to learn from that and it’s not a step by anticipated I basically was gonna, you know, put it out there in a lot of different mediums through influencers affiliates and my own social network. So this is an interesting step to take in order to learn more about how people are going to react to it that’s, that’s very good.

18:32

DOC:Yeah. And then once I have the copy once I’ve already gone through it. I’ve done a test run. If you’ve gone through the course I have completions I already have that, then I look at the influencers that use those products and services. Then I go to them, because if I’m already noticing an influencer is using some of those systems or those platforms, then I’m like hey guess what this is a system that you’re using right so if I’m thinking about ConvertKit, like for instance, using ConvertKit, I see that all these bloggers or all these influencers are using ConvertKit Pat Flynn etc etc. and say hey Pat like I already got ConvertKit ConvertKit went through this this is their testimonial. I think this would be really good for your audience I think this would be really good for you. This is what I propose to do, and I’m either having already a outline of a campaign and conversion of like, okay, you would get this amount if you promote it to your audience etc etc. I’m looking for a long term, maybe not a huge long term but a campaign that builds trust authority for my course, and it’s getting all of that warm traffic from their audience to convert over. And that’s, that’s the next step I go with.

Mark Fidelman  19:37

Okay, wonderful, this is great information and I know there’s a lot more that you do, but I wanted to stay somewhat at the 10,000, foot view, because we could be here for three hours I’m sure just explaining all everything that you would you would do in the situation. So let’s move to okay now I’ve got a good understanding of what the objections are what the messaging is you know how I should change things that I want to go mass scale. So, what would I do or what have your sports stars done or anybody done in order to get this out to the right people that you know will buy it.

20:14

DOC: Yeah. So after that it’s it’s really just two steps. Once we already have the numbers analytics, how it’s improved people’s life, how you know the return everything like that, then we’re partnering with bigger brands, and in the space so huge brands So, like say for instance we go into two different steps right so if it’s an athlete. Number one, we’re gonna first. Will the team sponsor will the team talk about it. Okay. After that, can we be at conferences, such as the NFL player Association, can we do different demonstrations how this goes. So for an example we worked with a sports agent. They were representing clients. They wanted to have a system in place this methodology to show how athletes can start saving their money in investing the right way. So then they did a presentation at the player Association. So now you’re getting all the targeted people, you’re getting already one of their clients saying yes I’ve used them and this is what I’ve been able to invest, and now we’re having a primed pump, as it were, because we have a room of all of these 300 plus people that are in the perfect situation to invest in what we want. So that’s one example. Another example is South by Southwest. When we were working with a number of ones when they were trying to first have their authority, be gained from there. They we already knew who was on South by Southwest which panel we wanted to target. And then we talked about okay this is going to be your positioning of this product, you’re going to be in front of these people. And then we’re going to be promoting it from the stage, and then we had the list of the different brands that were going to be represented to look for a new product. And then, because they were already there we looked up who they were. And then we proceeded to talk with them. During the rest of the festival.

Mark Fidelman  22:04

Okay. So, I like the thinking here Is there anything that you’ve seen around, you know, providing something that I don’t I call it a lead magnet, you know, in the marketers called a lead magnet but something to kind of tease people into, you know, Looking further into whatever signature product or service that the athlete or I’m kind of charging Have you seen. Have you seen anything like that.

22:38

DOC: Yeah, it’s really the best, you know, so I’ll give you an example of one but I mean, it really just depends. I usually try to take a bite size deliverable, and it’s instant gratification, and that’s my lead magnet. So, I’m one of the okay so I’ll give you an example of one of the athletes so Christmas again. So, we should make sure that we, so we were testing her signature before she expanded it. people, we found out that tons of people like, I just want to meet you everything like that. Well, to see if it was even a draw for her to be at live events for when people show up. We did a scavenger hunt, and we’re just like hey, opt in for this and you’ll get the exact location, where you can find her at this event. And we had 2000 people opt in, in 36 hours. So, then we knew Okay, that was enough she’s a draw. Now we can, we can use that data. So when we position and want her to speak at different events. She, she can show these numbers and then right off the bat, they’re like oh wait, she already knows her numbers she already has a lead magnet she already. He is business minded. Okay, go from there. So for me for a lead magnet of what’s happening. I really think it’s, it’s something that someone can see from it okay for example like for us we have a whole program, all this stuff with Gary Vee and all this stuff, but we have the three path assessment. That’s been the greatest lead magnet for us because then you can just say hey, in three minutes you’ll know what kind of content you need to create, you don’t ever need to work with us or anything like that, it’s instant gratification, they know what kind of content they need to create, but it still gives them enough questions, or if they’re intrigued they’re saying well I know my personality type what kind of content I need to create. But now I don’t know how to create long form content or now I don’t know how to do this, I can need to contact them, but it’s instant gratification, I they don’t need to wait for me I don’t have to give them the response. An example of this, we had a client where we built their signature product was an app. And they were working with, again it was scratching their own itch, they needed a faster way of working with athletes or talent and for them to respond to interview requests. So we just filled out a form, all of the major industries. If you want a pro athlete. What you know to contact you fill in this form, let us know what kind of athletes, you need to talk to. and we’ll let you know, within six hours. So originally it’s the app we want them to be on on boarded onto the app for them to start paying so you know they obviously they get a percentage of every conversion whatever, but we were solving a huge problem that they were having at these events Superbowl all these other things, like say last year there was super bowl. One of the athletes. They, for some reason boxers they always want to talk to boxers at these football events but anyway, this is what they wanted this. This one client that we had, we built out this form this lead magnet. She has all the brands in their contact and the right person in their department, and now she can have the conversation with that.

Mark Fidelman  25:54

Wow, I mean these are just amazing suggestions and ideas. And I know we could again go on and on and on about it. So, in kind of wrapping things up. Is there anything else that we didn’t cover, and I know we’re at the 10,000 foot level, but you know when you develop a signature product or service I know how difficult this is there’s thousands of steps but is there anything at a high level that we didn’t cover that you’d like to cover that you do when you’re working with your clients.

26:23

DOC: It’s kind of like throughout the whole process but I I really think it’s important to be objective and to have your keeping score. There’s going to be tons of iterations of different product ideas everything you’ve got to have some kind of place that you’re storing it, it could be a Google Sheet, it could be whatever but I’m writing down an idea, I’m describing what kind of idea is that is it a product, physical or digital, what is it, what’s the deliverable. Who is it for, and then instead of us just going back and like that felt good this one, we can objectively look at okay what worked, what tests did we do, what was the result. In this quick MVP Did someone say they were going to buy it. Did they say they want to be on a, on a waitlist do if we say hey, this is going to be pre ordered, put down $500, are they doing it. We might, you know if it doesn’t work, we’ll give them money right back but we’re looking for that buy in. So I think it’s really important too to start having an inventory of looking at what’s working, what’s not working so then you can have clear eyes when you go to develop that, huh.

Mark Fidelman  27:26

All right. Wow. Very well said. Okay, so we’re gonna wrap things up I have two questions. Doc that I asked everybody. The first is, what is the hottest digital marketing technology that you are using or want to use.

27:43

DOC: Oh man, I can only pick one. Wow, you can pick two. Okay well. Oh, man. There’s so much okay so there’s one thing that we’re really experimenting with and we’ve been having really good results, and that’s lens studio, that’s creating augmented reality or different types of content on the snap platforms so that’s been really, really exciting. And then the second one is, there’s a couple of no code, tools, but creating voice applications for brands. So, those are the two that, because there’s so much. I can’t remember, it’s, it’s astronomical how fast people are using voice to search versus regular search on Google. So, creating voice apps that makes sense for people’s brands that is going to just keep. That’s gonna be so important than the next two to five years so those are the two things we’re doing

Mark Fidelman  28:35

wonderful and I didn’t know people were still on Snapchat. I’m joking. But is it still pretty popular.

28:45

DOC: It’s having a really big rebound, especially with everyone’s staying in but for the last eight months, it’s pretty much, it’s, it’s like how staff was when they first were getting hot but it’s really understanding what’s happening and what we’re finding is geo filtering geo retargeting that has been instrumental in the numbers, we had something where I mean, I’ll stop. If I tell me to stop or if you don’t

Mark Fidelman  29:10

know because I have a follow up question but go ahead.

29:13

DOC: But like so, like, just one example so we do geo filtering and we do geo targeting so like, when we’re working with clients that have these huge events. We just geo fenced where everyone is so when they walk into a certain area they get something right so we geo fence and then we create these custom lenses. Well, the lens looks so much branded with the event there at that festival people use it, but there’s so many other sections of that filter that are really brand specific for our clients. And so instead of, you know, forcing these ads on people are taking, we had on one time we spent, $140, and we had 1600 people use our lens at the event. They’re all entirely being spokesman for the ad because the filter looked back. Great. And then from there we we retargeted with ads for that brand, then got them off a snap.

Mark Fidelman  30:09

Wow. Okay, yeah, that’s my big problem with Snapchat which I’ve never been a fan of because I’m like well how do you monetize this you can’t bring them off the platform at least you couldn’t you know a year or two ago when I was studying it. And how do you get them into a funnel and can you do that with these lenses.

30:25

DOC: Yeah, so, yes or no. So I think it’s very organic, and this is why I’m like, you got to be really specific with it. It’s got to be either very relevant to the person right there, they’re using the lens because it, it reflects on them. It looks great. It’s a great lens for that there to be a retargeting ad, it has to be very centralized on what they just did and why it benefits them so for example, work festivals, we’re looking at it certain artists or performers, or brands that are appealing to that audience, after they’re at that concert. We’re not running ads for the next two days we’re just running ads for the next 12 hours hard to them. And we’re giving them a reason why they need to opt in or go off a platform to sign up on a website. So, if they’re really enjoying this festival they love this artist or something like that. We’ll say either enter to get into this flag, and it’s all about this one type of artist or they’re at this festival, or you were just at this event, there was this kind of thing at the event like say for instance if you’re a founder, there can be tons of ones but there’s tons of booths, that people have out. And when I’m thinking about Exploding Kittens they have this vending machine it’s crazy, but we’re going to now say hey you just saw this vending machine at this event. I’m not, I doubt that you got to get all those prizes, come over here and then we’re having them often off of staff.

Mark Fidelman  31:57

Now we got just seems like a lot of work, when you could just use another platform like Instagram that you can get into a funnel, a lot faster. Am I wrong.

32:06

DOC: You could, um, the, I found that snap for two reasons. I think it also goes into so okay so Instagram. Yeah, it’s gonna be a lot faster for SNAP, I’m having a deeper relationship because number one, they’re self selecting themselves using my filter, so they already know that it’s, it’s the branding that we’re providing. They’re now self selecting themselves to opt in and beyond this other list. So for me to siphon through they’ve already done to voluntary actions by the time they go onto my list. I’m asking what they’re struggling with what they’re doing with whatever. And now I’ve got them. They’ve already interacted with me, they’ve already. And now, I’m good. And for staff because so many people are paying attention to staff. Again, we had over 1500 people do an action. We spent $140. I mean it. So, again, it’s very very selective in what you’re doing and why you’re on that platform. But as many things as we do on staff the same reason we do Reddit ads right, it’s very highly specific to a niche audience that we’ve already know because of the person will work with the brand, and then we bring them on that way.

Mark Fidelman  33:18

Got it. Okay. Make sense, I will check it out, and I would love to see any case studies you have on that but we’ve got to move to the second question, I took way longer than I thought. But it was very interesting. I’m very interested in it. who you’re learning from and sales or marketing today who you paying attention to.

33:42

DOC: That’s an interesting question.

33:46

DOC: So, I just try to look at ones that are not my industry. Mm hmm. And see if I can see what they’re doing and then bring it over. That’s a good strategy.

33:56

DOC: Yeah, I mean, Jasmine star, I really like. I you know I do a lot of research on, I go to creative live love that platform, and I look in a very different area that I’m not in, I go into the crafting section. I go into ones, dealing with music. I just looked for different ones that are standing out and then I go follow them for a while, because I find that if I’m in digital marketing sometimes I start. I’m just in saturated with everything that looks all the same because everyone’s just looking at the same thing. So I tried to do that and then the other thing was, this is really random really random, so I’m just let you know but we were removing into this new space. And it’s this old factory, I mean this factory been there since like 1902, and there is this, this, this, the old founder he’s long dead but he had all of his salesmen books from 1921 to 1940, and it’s the small books where it’s how to be a great salesman. In that year like 1929 1931, and it’s pretty refreshing. Some of I mean there were just so many tactics. Yeah, that are tried and true and I’m like, Yeah, they set it up hundred years ago. And so I’m just taking a lesson I’m just writing down what they have one a day, but I just look at that, write some notes and i mean it’s it’s it has application right now. So, that’s what I’ve been doing

Mark Fidelman  35:24

now, because human nature doesn’t change it’s, it’s interesting so you. Where do you find these things.

35:32

DOC: You mean the salesman books Yeah, they do, so they moved locations they had been there over 100 years we were there and we’re moving all their stuff in. And they left all of their all of these salesman books from the news. Wow. And I was like, Well what are they gonna do they’re like, I’m just gonna throw them out I was like, why would you throw this out. And then I brought them into the office, and then, so I just have them but i i mean i got to look at. I mean, obviously be long gone, but I was like, they’re literally it’s the year and it’s being how to be a good sale. That’s what it says on the cover and that’s, that’s how I found them very random.

Mark Fidelman  36:11

And I know cuz I’ve seen Seth Godin kind of do this you he’ll go back to some old marketers and kind of repurpose some of that stuff and re spin it and you know serve it up as new, you know, because he’s applying it to a 2019 or 2020 context so I think that’s a genius idea. Okay. Everyone go find those salesperson books for the 1920s, and see what you could do with him. All right, so let’s finally wrap things up. If you are interested in scheduling a free 15 minute discovery call with Doc, where can they find you and I’ll put this in the show notes

36:52

so

36:56

DOC:calm, and you can go there is there’s the first opt in and saying, Let us do it for you. And that basically triggers that assessment so we can know more about you, and it’s a free 15 minute discovery call finding out what you’re struggling with what you need to have in specifically about building a signature product, something that stands. The standard, you know the length of time and really talking about your brand. We go through all of that so we hear about what you’re looking for and then, uh, then we have the meeting. Excellent.

Mark Fidelman  37:27

All right, so I’m gonna wrap things up and, as always, if you like this podcast and you like doc or if you like me. Please provide a review in wherever you’re listening, whatever platform you’re listening to us on because they really encourage us to give us the feedback to bring on more guests like Doctor, just tell us how to do things, not a lot of fluff. Except for the snapshot stuff. No, just kidding. All right. Anyway, Doc, wonderful to have you as always and I look forward to talking to you in the next few months.

38:02

DOC: guys thank you so much for having me.

Mark Fidelman  38:11

Okay. There we go. Good. I loved this. I loved it. Thank you for taking my little project on and give me some information on on it so

38:25

DOC: mean yeah that’s Everyone needs that, especially those mid size and startups that would be perfect. I mean, I would, I just so many things mark, I mean you could be doing that at conferences, you can be talking about it just depends on how you want to scale it I mean, I’d never do large amounts of money for ads until I get exactly right. That’s yeah I mean you can always speed it up with ads so

Mark Fidelman  38:48

well I mean, then you waste a lot of money. Yeah. So I, I kind of take that approach as well. And, you know, I start with my email list and then I use my email list to kind of gauge how because these people know me, to kind of gauge how it’s gonna do. And, and then I kind of pivot from that if I find some group of people that are really liking this like tech companies, then I’ll just focus on those with ads but yeah I know there’s a lot of people that that could use this I’m just trying to figure out okay how do I best position it. How do I get it out there who are the influencers and brands that I can partner with to kind of get that out there. I’d like affiliates you know I give affiliates 50% of whatever they sell. And my mindset just Of course this guy kind of positioning as a mastermind where you get to talk to me twice a month in a group setting. And if you pay more, you know you could talk to me one on one. And then the third choice would be Hey, we’ll come do it for you ship it nuts. So that’s kind of how I’m positioning this, I don’t know what your thoughts are on that.

39:53

DOC: I like it I like like the scalability, like the the format. How is have you already tested it for email lists have, have you already like been giving hints and everything I’ve been given hints, and I already have people like I have a call in an hour and a half on somebody on LinkedIn that

Mark Fidelman  40:09

I hinted at it and she’s like this is what we’ve been looking for, you know, it’s not just the video stuff because there’s a lot of courses on that it’s like okay yeah video plus sales How about that, you know, how do you do that, and that the issue for me is how do I keep this simple because it’s actually pretty complex you know just creating relevant videos is complex, but you know you had a sales funnel to a Jesus.

40:32

DOC: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s so are you using are you doing like a plug and play sales funnel are you doing it on one platform and then when they come into class you’re just dragging it in and they’re replicating that and you’re just filling in or.

Mark Fidelman  40:46

Oh, no, no. So, I think I understand what you’re saying. So the course would be okay, here’s, here’s how you could do it. Here’s how you should do it. Here are relevant examples here the types of videos, you should be creating and here the ones you shouldn’t. More importantly, and then how do you build either, because I you know I teach people put out two videos a week and they should be like TV shows or educational shows or treat it like a television show, and you know it doesn’t have to be high production, we can do high price high production, I’ll show you how to hire you know a local team and what you should pay him and all that. But, you know you can do it with a ring light and a good HD webcam. And then, I, there are editors that will do it, you know, produce it for 30 bucks an episode I mean you can do this on the cheap and it still looks great, trust me. And so, I will teach both ends of the spectrum and if somebody wants something in between. Then, for me the call to action okay just call us and we’ll see if we can help you.

41:52

DOC: Yeah, I think it’s I mean especially when you’re getting on this call, you already know this but like I just want to know that language that they’re using like what what are they, what are they been missing in their business like what why did that trigger them

Mark Fidelman  42:06

well because my pitch is awareness plus sales so you can run ads all day long but as soon as those ads, run out, you know, you’ve got nothing out there with with videos, you’ve got great SEO value, especially if you do it the way I teach you. And then, you know, you’ve got sales, because you’re not the ad hasn’t stopped the ad is still on YouTube or the ad is still on a platform like a blog that’s drawing traffic so you put out a lot of ads that never go away, that are searchable by Google. And, you know, the good ones you’re advertising to. There’s no better way to do it. And you know what, you’re also branding yourself you’re, you know video is the best medium for this stuff it’s not a banner ad. And, you know, we teach you how to turn it into a sales phone.

42:56

DOC: Yeah, no, no, I’m hearing everything I just how equipped are those people that are interested to then execute what you tell them to do.

Mark Fidelman  43:06

Well, you know, if I take it to this level I say look, What do you have in place right now, you know, do you have a webcam if you don’t it’s 79 bucks for a very good one I use a $79 Logitech webcam and it’s frickin awesome. And by the way, we use if you use zoom, you could you could put these artificial backgrounds up, you don’t need a green screen and look pretty damn good. You can even put a video behind you. So, that’s the zoom is 19 bucks a month. You get a ring light for 49 a good ring light, and you’ve got a pretty damn good set, I’m telling you, and then. So, depending on you know what they’re looking to do. I can kind of position it in a way where if you have nothing. It’s very inexpensive to get started. If you already have, you know these things, here’s how you turn it into a, an ROI positive situation.

44:02

DOC: And one last thing too, with all the different packages have you already leaned towards one type of package or you’re trying to push them to or not really

Mark Fidelman  44:10

well. Good question. I haven’t thought this through so I have three scenarios. One is by the course attending my mastermind twice a month, second level is buy the course, and I’ll personally walk you through it once a month but that’s gonna be a lot more money. And the third option, which I’d make the most money on but I can’t scale unfortunately is we’ll do it all for you. Then I have to start hiring people, which I’m already starting to reach out to my friends that are doing this and I’ll teach them my methodology. But, so I haven’t thought this through I haven’t modeled it and yeah that’s another step I have to take here shortly.

44:48

DOC: That’s the only thing I was thinking like if you’re talking to the person on LinkedIn like because the conversation is gonna go great, I, I was just thinking, whatever you want to do, however you want to be just shifting them, or like I think you’re perfect for this and you’re already getting at that level that you want to scale it, if you want to do you know more, you know, the group versus one at one or, you know, something like that. That’s the only thing that I’m thinking of when you’re going through this but yeah

Mark Fidelman  45:16

what was what you cut out there a little bit, what was the only thing

45:20

DOC: that was the only thing I’m kind of hearing what the person says after you have that LinkedIn conversation. Yeah, for you, if you want to go to whatever level steering the conversation to plug them in at that level and see if it can work

Mark Fidelman  45:35

well that’s why she’s calling me or. That’s why she reached out to me on LinkedIn and she wants us to do it. She runs. That’s one of my, my impression was when I asked her a few qualifying questions was, I run a woman’s, you know, some sort of business advisory group, and you know these people are looking for a solution and that, you know, I’ve been watching I watch what you were talking about on LinkedIn and was wondering if you could help us and what your fee structure was so to me Those are all buying signals so I don’t know, we’ll see what happens I mean it could be Hey, She just wants to offer this service to her members and there really isn’t a qualified business it’s ready to go, but we’ll see how it goes.

46:20

DOC: I’m interested.

46:23

DOC: Let me know how it goes, Yeah, keep in touch, let me know what’s going on with it I would love to. You tell me what you need help.

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TRANSCRIPT

Hello everyone, welcome to the digital brand builder podcast. Joining me today is Samuel Donner and we’re going to talk about four minute podcast episode drops as in that’s a new thing in marketing four minutes. I know our attention spans are shrinking, but very interested in what he has to say about this and how you know that is moving the needle for for us marketers and some of the sales people so Samuel Welcome to the show and you go by Sam, or Samuel.

Yes, Sam is fine. Hello. Hello. Marks audience.

Mark Fidelman 05:17

All right. Can you give us a little bit of a background of yourself. In 100 words or less try to keep it Telenor

05:22

Yeah, for sure. Um, so, I graduated, UCLA mechanical engineering a few years ago realized I was kind of bored with it, and started doing production work, ended up getting a few clients after college and and gravity into 30 people. And now we produce our own podcast finding founders, but we also make podcasts for television and fennel and kind of like as an VIP game.

Mark Fidelman 05:53

Okay, and you have your own podcast, right. Yes, called finding founders. And what is that about just finding people that start businesses.

06:01

Yeah, so I mean it started off. When I was when I was studying mechanical engineering, I was applying like to tons and tons of jobs and was literally getting no callbacks and then I started doing some freelance work and I did some work for Netflix and realized I like that more and then started to try to apply to full time gigs for creative work, and just got nothing back and one point I’m like okay I’m using all these editing skills. How can I apply it to a different medium, and maybe actually secure an interview with some of these people that I wanted to work for. And I initially just interviewed my roommate. Tim Connor says, I bet a cap and gown company ended that together and then that next interview ended up being with the founder of American Apparel, and then things kind of snowballed from there and so we interview. We started with entrepreneurs in Los Angeles, but now we’re doing series around the world. So, a couple weeks ago I was in Puerto Rico, doing a series on Puerto Rican entrepreneurs and delving into like a question on that that came up when I was looking at Puerto Rico and saw that their entrepreneurial community grew a ton after the 2017 hurricanes hurricane Maria. And, and they have this burgeoning entrepreneurship fraternity post 2017 it’s like much more vibrant than it was before the destruction. so the question was highly structured so the seasons seize opportunity and growth and so now we’re doing these series that doing kind of close up looks at entrepreneurial communities around the world. Okay, well, wonderful.

Mark Fidelman 07:41

I mean, certainly there’s a lot of interest in that and how many episodes have you done so far.

07:48

We’ve done around at. So we started doing it. So I started doing this a few years ago, but was like splitting that between full time work when I was working for some other companies and then the beginning of the school. And, and but now for the past year, we’ve been doing an episode every week.

Mark Fidelman 08:15

Well, okay. Wonderful. And I know how difficult these can be to put together and edit them and all the rest of that. So, um, you know I I really admire people that do one a day I don’t know how they do it they must not have any life whatsoever. Certainly, they’re out

08:30

there, imagine doing one a day once a week is enough for us but we’re also specializing in this like narrative audio. Yeah. So we put in music and sound effects and voiceover we have this whole six week production process that goes to the whole team, where we start from the research team and then going through script writing and going into the editing team music department and

Mark Fidelman 08:55

yeah you’re doing a full production, whereas you know I’m just here with the beginner’s mind just kind of winging it just based on my interest, and I you know I just try to pull things out of people as best I can. But you’ve got a full production going,

09:10

oh there’s quite quite a fall we’re definitely getting where you’re

Mark Fidelman 09:14

going, if you’re scripting it out and you got music and you got special effects throughout doing a lot more than I do. So, so let’s,

09:22

let’s not just add effects

09:26

for the experience, you know,

Mark Fidelman 09:27

I might even do a, an episode like that where I put it on the special effects just to see if it’s annoying, or if it actually works, just to throw it out there like that, or something. All right, let’s get to the heart of it so as you know I like to show people what others are doing that’s innovative and unique and that works and most importantly that works. So, you know, I want to talk about this concept of a four minute podcast episode drop First of all, you know if you’re not doing podcasts, you should really look into it, it’s not for everybody. And frankly I think if you can do video well video probably pays off better but there’s a lot more expensive when it comes to creating videos on YouTube. So, going back to podcast this four minute podcast episode drop What is it, can you tell us what that means and what that looks like.

10:21

Yeah, just on the podcasting ever. Everyone know. I actually think it’s like this very interesting medium that that is more what what podcast podcasting is at least how I see it is its top of the funnel content. And so when you sit down and record a two hour podcast, you not only have an integer recording video, you not only have that podcast but then what you can do is you can distribute that content into small videos that you can put to YouTube you can attach graphics to that and make it even more engaging videos. You can even go lower down in the funnel and make them as small like Instagram videos are like bite sized videos like Tick tock, or you can even transcribe it and turn it into a podcast, or you can take little pieces that to transcription and put it in like as as a, as a tweet and Twitter and so I think you’re right, in a sense that like many times podcasts won’t be the thing that people will end up consuming, but it can be a starting point in terms of content production so you can get all the people that are consuming content elsewhere. And so that’s how we’re viewing it like we released, you know, five pieces of content between LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, each week and we have like a social media team that that puts all that together and so I think that top of the funnel marketing is for content production is where podcasts really shine through. Okay.

11:59

But why four minutes, why four minutes,

12:02

but four minute podcast, podcast. So, I was talking to the founder, or the CEO of wonder. Jen Sargent, and wondery is probably, I think it’s like the fifth largest Podcast Producer, and they’ve had tons of number one podcast throughout the last couple years. And they’ve gotten their distribution and and their, their launches for Podcast Series down to a science, and they try to a bunch of different things. So, one of the classic podcast like drops that people did in the early days that podcast is they would just shout each other out, you know at the beginning of the episode like, I would say, hey, like if I was on fire upon finding founders that the only way to do it would be like, Hey, Mark is doing digital brand builder you should go check out this podcast right. And that worked fairly well coming from the house. And then people what they did is the original one they would shout the house and then just play the rest of the regular episodes but then it evolved to saying, hey, you should go check out Mark’s podcast, let me play the full episode and so that is like that would, what’s called like an episode spot where you would play their episode on your feed and they play your episode on their feed. And then it got to like, okay, they would listen to that whole episode but did they have a reason to actually go to your feed and take the extra few seconds to subscribe, and often they did. So the next thing is like hey can you post half that episode on the feed and that would get people but but the cut off in terms of like the critical kind of critical mass of people to actually get over to that other other feed with drops significantly after the 15 minute mark. And so when we did the series of tests to see what does at what minute mark are people engaged enough to, to have like a reason to jump over to another feed and check them out. Like what like how much of the pockets are there to listen to to jump make that jump. And then, how long is it until people just fall off. And they found that four minutes is that sweet spot. If you can put four minutes of a really engaging part of your podcasts and someone else’s feed. There, there is the highest likelihood that people will jump over.

Mark Fidelman 14:53

I mean what do you I mean videos do that all the time but I guess without listening to these four minute podcast, what’s kind of a frame work of how they’re fitting things into those four minutes interviews one problem solver quickly or. How’s it work.

15:09

Um, so, in terms of format for those four minute little mini episodes, is you want to have a hook within the first like 20 seconds you want something that gives a reason to keep listening So, an unanswered question, or a moment of, I guess in a narrative podcast like for us it’s usually an unanswered question with sticks, so there. For example, where there was sky Andrew Warner, that we interviewed a couple couple weeks ago his episodes coming out in two weeks. And he was losing $8 million. Like every couple of months for his company he was in massive amounts of debt, and we put that that’s like comes in maybe towards the end of the episode, we put that little clip at the front but with the unanswered question Hey like we don’t know what is going to happen next. So that’s really important to have that that that hook at the beginning and then you have your intro that establishes, who you are and what you’re doing. That might be longer than maybe it is on your, your regular feed for like your, your regular listeners on this format one you want it to be really fleshed out so people know what they’re listening to and why. And then you have maybe the first couple minutes of your episode that again that ends on a question so ends on a reason that people should continue listening.

Mark Fidelman 16:43

Okay, and where, where would somebody get a listen as to these format episodes maybe on your podcast you’re doing them now.

16:53

Yeah, so we actually usually do them on other people’s feeds so we actually try all the, all the different all these different methods so we’re actually doing a four minute drop with this guy Jim quick. In a week so definitely check out his feed. Soon, but I’d say that the best place to look at those is wondering wonder he will play those in the middle of their episodes. Those four minute clips at the end of their episodes especially. I think wonder he really is a leader, wondering, and creating that yacht One reason is, is incredible with that and they and they also I think works best. We get to work with any podcast, but when you have a certain narrative arc, to your podcast that helps a lot. And I think you can create narrative arcs. In talk show style podcast as well. It might be a little easier when you’re actually creating like that narrative maybe like preemptively with a script and we do. But really, that narrative can be created with anyone. It just, it just maybe takes a little bit of extra work.

Mark Fidelman 18:01

Okay, so you’re saying that this is the way to do the four minute episode is to build it within another episode or when would you recommend that they can do it outside of or just independently of any other episode.

18:19

So, I attempt to answer that question. Um, well I and I’m not sure if this is exactly what you’re answering but I also want to address this in terms of giving in terms of where to place that that format episode you want to place it on someone else’s podcast on someone else’s. Okay, so so you want to place it on someone else’s podcast, but you want to also. Place it like integrate it into their content so it would usually come as a mid roll on their podcast. So why would they do this and

Mark Fidelman 18:56

why would they do that, I mean for what what benefit do they get.

19:00

So for us, for us, we have extremely high production value so we’re essentially making a documentary about these

19:07

people that

19:08

people’s lives. And we’ve gotten we’ve gotten feedback or like our people that we talk to you have cried listening to their episode. Because it frames your life in such a way that makes them just reflect on all they have accomplished and how far they have to go. And so obviously it’s an easier ask when there’s an emotional tie to that content. But let’s say you’re making a different kind of content that maybe doesn’t pull out the emotional heartstrings as much. The other way to do that would just be to do a swap. So, you do it for me and I do it for you. Right. And so that’s probably the easiest way to get started on it, but for us like we’re able to reach these massive audiences really quickly with people with millions of downloads because of that of that, you know, toy pulling on the emotional heartstrings but you know if you’re just getting started. Then what you would do is you would look at someone who has a similar audience size to you, podcasts are tricky because there’s not

20:14

much pouring. Yeah,

20:17

yeah, there’s not much data on that. So I would say that you just look at reviews, someone who has similar appeals to it’s incredibly accurate proxy but it’s kind of like the best one that I found. Okay,

Mark Fidelman 20:34

yeah, I mean that’s the, the key thing for me would be okay. I’m producing a four minute episode and I want somebody else to embed it within their own episode. Well, that would be challenging if somebody came to me, unless it was incredibly valuable to my to my audience and then I’d be thinking, Why don’t they just drop it within their own. Why are they dropping within mine unless they want reach my audience, which I okay I respect

20:59

that that’s the point is to reach your audience like this is a this is a clip from a larger episode in which they like that entices them to jump audiences and not be in what you would, what you’re trying to do is you’re trying to have that audience crossover

Mark Fidelman 21:17

right so there’s obviously a call to action at the end of it, or the host comes on and says, you know the rest of this.

21:25

So, that call to action should ideally come from the person hosting the podcast. Yeah. So, for example, when we go on Jim quicks podcast and a couple. I think it’s next week or so, what they’ll do is he’ll record an interesting. Hey, I just did a podcast with these guys. You should go check it out. Here’s a four minute clip, right, and maybe it’ll be a little bit longer than that. And then right after he says, Hey, if you want to listen to more, go to finding founders and check Wow, check out what they’re putting together.

Mark Fidelman 21:59

And then, whatever it is that you’re doing in those four minutes, does it relate to the actual episode of the podcast host.

22:08

A the. So for us it does. Yeah. So like, we put Jim quicks episode on the Jim quick podcast. So,

22:17

what is Jim quick talk about what is Jim quick talking about.

22:21

So I mean, he talks about learning, and, and, and like brain improvement and. And so, that’s actually kind of like another part of our strategy is we’ve been targeting specifically entrepreneurs with a podcast. So we know that when we tap into their audience their audience is already primed for content that is like ours and that that people like we know that if they like what Jim Collins putting out they’re probably gonna like us too, because we’ve already screened his, his audience, or his content and made the decision Hey like this guy is similar to ours. So we put together the episode on him, and they see hey like there’s this really interesting podcast that is like well produced that is on this guy that we’ve been listening to for years, then what they’ll do is all listen to that four minute clip, look at the suggestion from Jim, and then those listeners will jump over to our feed subscribe to our podcast and and start listening.

Mark Fidelman 23:25

Okay. So yeah, I mean, you guys are doing a lot of work around that. And, obviously, it must be paying off you wouldn’t continue to do it. What are the benefits definitely has been and what what are the benefits that you’re getting. As a result, doing this because I know a lot of people are thinking the same thing um thing is yeah I mean high production value. I guess it’s gonna relate to the person’s episode maybe the subject matter of that episode. So, what am I going to get at the end of the day.

23:53

Yeah, so I mean we’ve seen like 300% growth podcast going from just a couple thousand listens to like 10 2000 persons and a matter of a couple months since we started doing this strategy a couple months ago. And, and, like, not only are like we we’ve seen those convergence in terms of like the actual listener numbers but we’re getting a lot of emails that are basically saying, Hey, we love what you put together. And, like, like, I actually I actually we got we got one from this guy, a couple days ago saying like hey I agree, I’m actually just reading it off. This was yesterday. I appreciate you asking when it says when is enough. When is it enough this is a guy from Andrew Warner’s audience, also exploring the serendipity of creativity talking about helping trick fail and the evolution of user generated content. He was curious about like what other other other things are other topics that we were going to explore and he actually suggested some, some topics for future episodes, and so like we’re engaging other people’s audiences at a level, while they’ll actually write an email to us. So it’s been it’s been very, like how like in terms of returns the returns have been super high already. Okay.

Mark Fidelman 25:23

So, if the returns have been super high. I mean, what would be I you got to go and do. You know, I don’t know, hyper hyper mode into producing Mustangs and and putting it all over, you know, wherever you can. As long as it relates to what you’re doing, I would assume.

25:43

Well, yeah, I mean, we’re trying to do one of these with every person we entered the past like when we have 10 or so in the queue right now, and the past 10 have been founders with podcasts so we’ve been doubling down on this method and I really think it’s one of the best methods you can do but it doesn’t necessarily have to be with founders like if you’re in the health and wellness space. I’m talking about health and wellness with that guest, and then trying to piece together like like let’s say you have, or you know like let’s just like use your podcast as an example, if you have this, if you were specifically targeting other people who are talking about like digital brand questions so like for example Chris Doe, you have a conversation with Chris Doe, and you put together a really kick ass four minute little piece and say hey Chris like was pleasure talking to you. Do you mind if we put this, this little four minute episode in bite you know your episode When, when, in a couple weeks, and he might do that if he sees enough value in it. Or if you could do that with someone, maybe closer to your own audience size. I feel like it’s not too hard to ask especially if you do it for someone else. And then now you’re both growing your audiences.

Mark Fidelman 27:05

Yeah, so growing your audiences and then from that once your audience has grown, you’re upselling cross selling some things that you you’re selling entrepreneurs in. Where’s the monetization.

27:17

So for me the monetization actually comes from TCP IP. So, I’m almost using this as a bid step tool. And, and I’ve like met a ton of people that are like wow I really enjoyed what you put together for me, can you create this about this topic so I can set us up. And so that’s what I’m currently working on right now is that is that project for TV. And because like right now. podcast IP is, is, is like the hottest IP for TV, and, and film. What, what like books were 10 years ago, is what podcasts are now so like we’re having a bunch of films and TV shows that are based on podcasts and one of the biggest examples right now, recently was homecoming was a gamma podcast they sold that to Amazon and they made a couple series out of it, or Amazon Prime. And so, and then one reads really double down, doubling down on that model. They make most of the money not from the ad revenue from the people that are listening to this podcast, but they’re making it because they’re selling the IP to a TV and felt so like, what essentially what this podcast is doing is it’s a really cheap way to test whether an idea hits a market, so they can produce this idea for pretty cheap compared compared comparatively to like what what TV would cost. And, and then that I pay like this, so many people are listening to this podcast. We have proof of concept. Now let’s make a show from it that we know can do well because we already have this big audience that’s listening to this one podcast imagine what we can do. If we put it in a more widely consumed medium like TV. No.

Mark Fidelman 29:14

Okay. Got it. Well, that’s interesting. I’m gonna follow you guys and see what happens as a result. But for now, Let’s wrap things up and we do so by asking two final questions. The first of which is, what’s the hottest digital marketing technology that you’re recommending these days.

29:35

Um, so, I mean specifically for for podcasts, yeah.

29:41

caspa.

29:43

I’d say castbox Yeah, it was caspases. Yeah, castbox is a, it’s a platform. But they also do really do really well with ads so they are one of the only podcast platforms that actively I think something about their AI. Well, will update in real time to whatever the listener is doing in that moment and so they might 10 times the amount of downloads, you get for your dollar, as opposed to other, like other things that I’ve tried specifically I did overcast and like per per dollar, I was, this is something that I’ve actually tried out, I got 10 times the amount of downloads from castbox than I did with overpass with the same amount of money, but what are they doing differently as it

30:39

really well, what do they drive so they

30:41

have they have their algorithm it’s a lot better. It’s, it’s much smarter updates in real time to what the user is, or how the users interacting with their, their podcast platform. Hmm.

Mark Fidelman 30:57

So, we should all podcast owners get it on you know put their podcast on cashbox or is it automatically pulled, honey, how do you get it up there.

31:06

So you don’t necessarily have to host your podcast on cast box to advertise on it. You just have to reach out to one of the representatives and I think they also have an advertising portal on your website. And that’s how you can put a ad on there and it’s really like you can just do a banner ad. And so all you need is a picture and a short description that that will do it in terms of bringing listeners to your ad section.

Mark Fidelman 31:32

So when you’re listening to castbox. They say let’s just use mine for example, they’re very interested in digital marketing. And because of that, as long as I’m advertising with them, they’ll show an ad for my podcast and then that person’s got the choice whether to check it out or not as ours.

31:50

Yeah, so I mean, they’ll have a banner ad at the end of similar podcasts and what they’ll do is say like they’re advertising, at the end of two podcasts that are similar to your own like pocket same podcast be, let’s say like 10 people like will click on your thing, your, your advertisement from podcast, 85 will click from podcast feed. What it will do is because your ad a podcast is performing better, they will allocate more impressions to that specific podcast, in real time, and they’ll constantly be updating it where they will drive impressions based on where you’re getting the most traffic or where you’re sourcing them of traffic.

Mark Fidelman 32:36

Got it is relatively inexpensive advertiser.

32:40

Ah, well, no. Like, I go kind of. It just depends on what your budget is like for us. They had like a limit of 1500, so a minimum of 1500 to start, but they’re rolling out a more. I guess like smaller round where you can try out like hundred like 100 or so to check out what it does, but initially just for their early users. They’re doing

33:14

the minimum is 1500.

Mark Fidelman 33:16

Okay. And you think that’s worth it. I mean, what’s the cost of acquisition there.

33:22

So, we were getting for, I think, her dollar. I think we were getting 10 lessons like 555 such subscriptions, something like that. Because pretty high. Yeah,

Mark Fidelman 33:41

it sounds like they’re targeting is dead on.

33:44

Yeah, okay.

Mark Fidelman 33:45

Well that was a long answer the question one but I was very interested in castbox because I’ve heard about before. Let’s go. Number two, who is the most influential person in marketing today.

33:56

I mean, I feel like this is a low hanging fruit answer but I’ve been just following Gary Vee alive. I think what he’s done in marketing has been incredible and that’s, I’ve learned a lot from him in terms of that that that content funnel. Marketing and content model. The idea that that idea where you have podcasts top and then you create little quick form videos from that. I learned a lot from him in terms of how to implement that strategy. Yeah. So I think he’s really, really ahead of the curve that he was super bullish on tech talk really early that paid off well. Yeah,

Mark Fidelman 34:38

I agree. So, alright so let’s wrap things up, where can people find you. I mean, you can find your podcast of finding founders podcast on like any major podcasting platform, of course. But how, if somebody wanted to reach out to you directly. How would they find you.

34:58

Yeah, you can check us out on finding founders podcast on Instagram DMS there you can also go to our website, you can email me at Sam at finding founders co.co. Yeah, check out our website finding founders co you can see all of our all of the stuff that we’re up to. We have a newsletter that you can subscribe to on that website we also do events every so often with like live events with our founders on various topics. The last one actually was on Tick tock, and that was incredibly interesting thing to dive into. But yeah, that’s kind of where you can find that so check us out on all of the phone of finding founders platforms. All right, well,

Mark Fidelman 35:44

Sam that was a very interesting and educational input on four minute podcast I have no idea where this is going. It’s very interesting how you’re doing it. And I’m going to give it a shot. And if anyone wants to approach me and do some sort of trade. You know I’d be interested in doing it. I mean I’m just curious as to how this would actually work. So with that, we’re gonna wrap things up and really appreciate you being on the show. Awesome, thank

36:13

you so much that.

The Four Minute Podcast Hack
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